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kevin42 4 hours ago [-]
I'd love to use something other than ROS2, if for no other reason than to get rid of the dependency hell and the convoluted build system.
But there are a lot of nodes and drivers out there for ROS already. It's a chicken and egg thing because people aren't going to write drivers unless there are enough users, and it's hard to get users without drivers.
It looks like their business model is to give away the OS and make money with FoxGlove-like tools. It's not a bad idea, but adoption will be an uphill battle. And since they aren't open source yet, I certainly wouldn't start using it on a project until it us.
dheera 4 minutes ago [-]
ROS is, in my opinion, dying on the industry front.
* It is a dependency hell
* It is resource-heavy on embedded systems
* Huge chunks of it are maintained by hobbyists and far behind the state of the art (e.g. the entire navigation stack)
* As robotics moves toward end-to-end AI systems, stuff needs to stay on GPU memory, not shuttled back and forth across processes through a networking stack.
* Decentralized messaging was the wrong call. A bunch of nodes running on a robot doesn't need a decentralized infrastructure. This isn't Bitcoin. Robots talking to each other, maybe, but not pieces of code on the same robot.
steve_adams_86 57 minutes ago [-]
It looks like this is cleaner and simpler than ROS 2, and the API seems nice, but it would be really difficult to diverge from the standard and use an ecosystem with a very small community and no momentum behind it. Does this have any compelling selling points to convince someone to switch other than 'less overhead than ROS 2'?
I'm not trying to downplay that selling point at all. My experience with ROS 2 is limited but that aspect of it was miserable.
This is such a small nit, but landing at the docs page (https://docs.peppy.bot/) and seeing this splash is annoying to me. Just show the docs.
Also it would be nice if I could switch between Rust and Python examples and have all code panes respect that choice, rather than have to switch every pane to Rust.
cjwoodall 3 hours ago [-]
I will admit I have almost always made the choice to not use ros2. I am trying to use it now for some work, and I can see where/when it would be useful...
But I almost always feel like there is just so much STUFF involved in ros, that really is just better resolved by having really robust controllers, well defined protocols, and everything else.
I wait to pass judgement until I have more information though
mikepurvis 11 minutes ago [-]
I've been a ROS 1 (and now 2) user since 2010. I think like the game engine analogy given elsewhere in the thread, in that ROS gives you some important things "for free" if you cooperate with its ecosystem conventions. Bagging, visualization, and sim are the three obvious ones that I think a lot of teams don't think about if they're just focused on getting cartographer or whatever going, and not considering the larger development and debugging questions.
For some, packaging/deployment would also fall under the umbrella of a solved-by-ROS problem, however I don't think the Open Robotics supplied debs are suitable for most product deployments, for a variety of reasons that I've talked about in two separate ROSCon talks.
jeff-hykin 3 hours ago [-]
As someone who has used ros2, I feel fine passing judgment; it is terrible. If its easier to write your own stack, do it. Your own stack will be easier to add to and maintain long term. The conceptual design (nodes) is great, its just the execution that is awful.
3 hours ago [-]
colinator 4 hours ago [-]
I've got one of these! Mine is called 'roboflex' (github.com/flexrobotics). It's c++/python, not rust. But similarly born out of frustration with ros. Writing your own robotics middleware seems to be a rite of passage. Just like 'writing your own game engine'. Nothing wrong with that - ros is powerful but has legit problems, and we need alternatives.
Although tbh, these days I'm questioning the utility. If I'm the one writing the robot code, then I care a lot about the ergonomics of the libraries or frameworks. But if LLMs are writing it, do I really care? That's a genuine, not rhetorical question. I suppose ergonomics still matter (and maybe matter even more) if I'm the one that has to check all the LLM code....
jeff-hykin 3 hours ago [-]
Take a look at github.com/dimensionalos/dimos. We are a team making - not only a replacement for ROS - but one that can be easily vibe coded, and one with compatibility with ros and containers.
Always looking for testers and feedback if you want to influence the design/API.
094459 3 hours ago [-]
This doesnt look open source, so maybe not a good comparison with ROS
antoineleclair 3 hours ago [-]
I see in their FAQ:
> Will PeppyOS be open source?
> Yes! PeppyOS will be fully open source under a BSL license before the end of this year. Once the software is mature, everyone will be able to contribute and participate in its development.
pavon 3 hours ago [-]
BSL is not an open source license. It is a proprietary source-available license that prohibits any "production" use.
LatticeAnimal 5 hours ago [-]
IIRC, the ROS UR controller runs at 200Hz and we’ve had arms crash when they run much slower than that.
The website claims “30hz polling rate”, “2ms latency”. Not sure if that is a best case or just for that demo.
digikata 5 hours ago [-]
Crash? The software, or physically? A 200Hz as a min control loop rate seems on the fast side as a general default, but it all depends on the control environment - and I may be biased as I've done a lot more bare silicon controls than ROS.
Symmetry 3 hours ago [-]
I'm guessing running a 200 Hz command rate on an e-series UR which uses 1 kHz internally will give you a protective stop?
irishcoffee 52 minutes ago [-]
One of the only ways I can imagine that would _somehow add even more complexity_ to the disaster that is ROS/ROS2, is to try and make rust a first-class citizen.
You're using ROS2, so you have a problem. You want to add rust to fix it? Now you have 47 problems.
Jenzaah 5 hours ago [-]
What makes this better than HORUS? Also Rust based, and opensource already.
ijustlovemath 5 hours ago [-]
There's no actual source for this, just some examples
blensor 4 hours ago [-]
Looking through the website and github, it looks a bit premature to post at all.
I don't have too much love for ROS personally but that claim the title is making is quite bold
But there are a lot of nodes and drivers out there for ROS already. It's a chicken and egg thing because people aren't going to write drivers unless there are enough users, and it's hard to get users without drivers.
It looks like their business model is to give away the OS and make money with FoxGlove-like tools. It's not a bad idea, but adoption will be an uphill battle. And since they aren't open source yet, I certainly wouldn't start using it on a project until it us.
* It is a dependency hell
* It is resource-heavy on embedded systems
* Huge chunks of it are maintained by hobbyists and far behind the state of the art (e.g. the entire navigation stack)
* As robotics moves toward end-to-end AI systems, stuff needs to stay on GPU memory, not shuttled back and forth across processes through a networking stack.
* Decentralized messaging was the wrong call. A bunch of nodes running on a robot doesn't need a decentralized infrastructure. This isn't Bitcoin. Robots talking to each other, maybe, but not pieces of code on the same robot.
I'm not trying to downplay that selling point at all. My experience with ROS 2 is limited but that aspect of it was miserable.
This is such a small nit, but landing at the docs page (https://docs.peppy.bot/) and seeing this splash is annoying to me. Just show the docs.
Also it would be nice if I could switch between Rust and Python examples and have all code panes respect that choice, rather than have to switch every pane to Rust.
But I almost always feel like there is just so much STUFF involved in ros, that really is just better resolved by having really robust controllers, well defined protocols, and everything else.
I wait to pass judgement until I have more information though
For some, packaging/deployment would also fall under the umbrella of a solved-by-ROS problem, however I don't think the Open Robotics supplied debs are suitable for most product deployments, for a variety of reasons that I've talked about in two separate ROSCon talks.
Although tbh, these days I'm questioning the utility. If I'm the one writing the robot code, then I care a lot about the ergonomics of the libraries or frameworks. But if LLMs are writing it, do I really care? That's a genuine, not rhetorical question. I suppose ergonomics still matter (and maybe matter even more) if I'm the one that has to check all the LLM code....
Always looking for testers and feedback if you want to influence the design/API.
> Will PeppyOS be open source?
> Yes! PeppyOS will be fully open source under a BSL license before the end of this year. Once the software is mature, everyone will be able to contribute and participate in its development.
The website claims “30hz polling rate”, “2ms latency”. Not sure if that is a best case or just for that demo.
You're using ROS2, so you have a problem. You want to add rust to fix it? Now you have 47 problems.